Using Dl-phenylalanine To Potentiate Kratom

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Using Dl-phenylalanine To Potentiate Kratom -

Postby The Wizard » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:59 pm

You folks should try potentiating Kratom by using the health supplement DL-Phenylalanine (DLPA), a 50/50 mixture of the D- and L-forms of the amino acid Phenylalanine.

DLPA is known to enhance the brain's production of endorphins, dopamine and adrenaline and has been shown repeatedly in studies to potentiate Opiates.

Knowing this I preload on 1-3 grams of DL-Phenylalanine a half hour to an hour or more before my usual dose of Kratom. I find my resulting Kratom buzz stronger and more stimulating.

I also preload on Tagamet or Grapefruit juice and Tums tablets prior to my dose of Kratom.

I recall reading somewhere that Rhodiola affects Opioid systems too so it might also work as a Kratom potentiator...
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Re: Using Dl-phenylalanine To Potentiate Kratom -

Postby mitragyna » Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:12 pm

The Wizard wrote:You folks should try potentiating Kratom by using the health supplement DL-Phenylalanine (DLPA), a 50/50 mixture of the D- and L-forms of the amino acid Phenylalanine.

DLPA is known to enhance the brain's production of endorphins, dopamine and adrenaline and has been shown repeatedly in studies to potentiate Opiates.

Knowing this I preload on 1-3 grams of DL-Phenylalanine a half hour to an hour or more before my usual dose of Kratom. I find my resulting Kratom buzz stronger and more stimulating.

I also preload on Tagamet or Grapefruit juice and Tums tablets prior to my dose of Kratom.

I recall reading somewhere that Rhodiola affects Opioid systems too so it might also work as a Kratom potentiator...

Wow, this is a great topic. I was just at the local health food store and I bought some L-Phenylalanine. I am taking an SNRI (Cymbalta), and since it can eventually drain your synapses of Norepinephrine; DLPA (and Tyrosine) can help replenish this neurotransmitter. Keep in mind that this is not like combining 5-HTP with SSRI's, which can cause fatal consequences ie: Serotonin Syndrome. I have never heard of a report of "Norepinephrine Syndrome".

Now, I have heard many conflicting stories on whether to use DL-Phenylalanine or just the L isomer. I hear that DL has more anti-depressant and pain relieving properties, while the L isomer is more effective for replenishing that certain neurotransmitter. So, there may be some opioid activity within the D and L combo but don't count my word on this. Also, I recall that the D and L render each other inactive so DLPA is pretty much a waste of money. Then again, this is just something I recall hearing and I could be completely wrong. I guess I need to do more research!8-)

I believe you are correct when you say Rhodiola has Opioid activity... Something about releasing Opioid Peptides and Endorphins. So, I can see how this may potentiate Opiate-like substances. Also, it's mild MAOI activity may attribute to this, and possibly it's anti-depressant properties. This is why it MAY be contraindicated with certain anti-depressants; although I have taken Remeron (Mirtzapine), Adderall, Lamictal, and Klonopin, along with Rhodiola for about a year, with no negative side-effects. Today I will test out my Rhodiola with my new AD (Cymbalta) in small amounts to see how they go together.

I am very interested in this "DLPA-Opiate/Kratom potentiation". I hope someone else on this forum has any more info on this topic; because if this is the fact, I'm going right back to that store and returning my L-Phenylalanine for the DL kind.

Thanks guys:mrgreen:
Last edited by mitragyna on Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: clarification
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Re: Using Dl-phenylalanine To Potentiate Kratom -

Postby The Wizard » Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:55 pm

By the way, DLPA (DL-Phenylalanine) is available for much cheaper online in powdered form than it is when sold at stores in tablet/capsule form. PM me if you need an online source for it. It's truly a crime how much stores are overcharging for DLPA in pill form when powdered DLPA is so readily available online for a tiny fraction of the cost. The same is true of Rhodiola- that one could get it at the store in pill form and pay an arm or a leg or buy it online in powdered form for much, much cheaper....

So anyways, if you want to try out DLPA make sure you've got B-complex vitamins handy too because your body needs to have certain B vitamins in it to make the DLPA absorb well. So pop a few B-complex vitamins (I say a few because some brands of vitamins are very weak and ineffective) and give it time to absorb into your system then try swallowing 1-2 grams of DLPA. Make sure you have an empty stomach when you swallow the DLPA because having food in your stomach messes up its absorption. I hear having vitamin C in your system also helps DLPA work better. An hour after you've taken your DLPA and are fully feeling it try some Kratom.

I don't know if DLPA actually boosts the opioid aspect of Kratom but it certainly boosts the energizing aspect (since DLPA enhances adrenaline and dopamine). And I dunno about you guys but I like my Kratom buzzes to be energetic not lazy. You can find studies online that show DLPA to help endorphin release and thus boost opioids if patients take DLPA and an opioid together. I only recall it saying the DLPA boosted the opioid's painkilling ability, not that it boosted the actual euphoria but who knows...

Make sure whenever you eat Kratom that you have an empty stomach. Food will make it kick in slower and be milder. Also heating your Kratom to make a tea may weaken it so I just toss n wash my Kratom or mix it with a cold drink (a really sweet cappucino works well). Other stuff you can preload on to boost Kratom is white grapefruit juice or Tagamet tablets and chewing Tums. Swallow 2 or 3 Tagamet tablets an hour before taking your Kratom or drink a cup of grapefruit juice every 20 or 30 minutes or so for a few hours (you drink the gfj for a few hours so that your body is slowly building up more and more of it) prior to dosing on Kratom. As I recall Tagamet and grapefruit juice potentiate Kratom through a similar mechanism so you only need to use one, not both of them. Then a little while before taking your Kratom chew on a few Tums tablets. The grapefruit juice/Tagamet/Tums combo should make your Kratom buzz last longer and be more intense.

What's your normal dosage of Rhodiola like? And you've tried Siberian or Chinese Rhodiola?
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Re: Using Dl-phenylalanine To Potentiate Kratom -

Postby mitragyna » Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:10 pm

The Wizard wrote:By the way, DLPA (DL-Phenylalanine) is available for much cheaper online in powdered form than it is when sold at stores in tablet/capsule form. PM me if you need an online source for it. It's truly a crime how much stores are overcharging for DLPA in pill form when powdered DLPA is so readily available online for a tiny fraction of the cost. The same is true of Rhodiola- that one could get it at the store in pill form and pay an arm or a leg or buy it online in powdered form for much, much cheaper....

So anyways, if you want to try out DLPA make sure you've got B-complex vitamins handy too because your body needs to have certain B vitamins in it to make the DLPA absorb well. So pop a few B-complex vitamins (I say a few because some brands of vitamins are very weak and ineffective) and give it time to absorb into your system then try swallowing 1-2 grams of DLPA. Make sure you have an empty stomach when you swallow the DLPA because having food in your stomach messes up its absorption. I hear having vitamin C in your system also helps DLPA work better. An hour after you've taken your DLPA and are fully feeling it try some Kratom.

I don't know if DLPA actually boosts the opioid aspect of Kratom but it certainly boosts the energizing aspect (since DLPA enhances adrenaline and dopamine). And I dunno about you guys but I like my Kratom buzzes to be energetic not lazy. You can find studies online that show DLPA to help endorphin release and thus boost opioids if patients take DLPA and an opioid together. I only recall it saying the DLPA boosted the opioid's painkilling ability, not that it boosted the actual euphoria but who knows...

Make sure whenever you eat Kratom that you have an empty stomach. Food will make it kick in slower and be milder. Also heating your Kratom to make a tea may weaken it so I just toss n wash my Kratom or mix it with a cold drink (a really sweet cappucino works well). Other stuff you can preload on to boost Kratom is white grapefruit juice or Tagamet tablets and chewing Tums. Swallow 2 or 3 Tagamet tablets an hour before taking your Kratom or drink a cup of grapefruit juice every 20 or 30 minutes or so for a few hours (you drink the gfj for a few hours so that your body is slowly building up more and more of it) prior to dosing on Kratom. As I recall Tagamet and grapefruit juice potentiate Kratom through a similar mechanism so you only need to use one, not both of them. Then a little while before taking your Kratom chew on a few Tums tablets. The grapefruit juice/Tagamet/Tums combo should make your Kratom buzz last longer and be more intense.

What's your normal dosage of Rhodiola like? And you've tried Siberian or Chinese Rhodiola?


I guess we both look for the same type of experience with Kratom:) I have been toss-n-washing for years, it's the only way I take it.

The Rhodiola I buy in stores is **** Herbs Liquid Phyto-Caps Siberian Rhodiola Rosea. Two capsules contain 400 mg of concentrated Rhodiola. Or in other words, two capsules contain 2,000 mg crude herb equivalent. It is standardized to full spectrum activity profile.
The Bioactivity of the two capsule serving is:
Rosavins-12 mg
Salidrosides-3.2 mg

It's "Ecologically Wildcrafted".

Oh yeah, I take two capsules daily.

That was just read off the bottle. Good stuff though, I'd recommend it. It is a bit expensive, but you get a very potent product with quick dispersion after ingested.
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Re: Using Dl-phenylalanine To Potentiate Kratom -

Postby Zombiesoul » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:12 pm

YOU ABSOLUTELY DO NOT WANT TO TAKE DL-PA WITH CYMBALTA, EFFEXOR, REBOXETINE OR ADDERALL UNLESS YOU HAVE THE TOOLS TO REVERSE A HYPERTENSIVE CRISIS!

It's a horror-show, believe me.

However, on the benefits side, I once took DL-PA for a month and then went on a regimen of tramadol (which hasweak norepinephrine reuptake-blocking effects). Any excessive stimulation was counteracted by serious analgesia (and I am not someone who normally "feels" this stuff). I actually was almost nodding-out.

If you have a good physician straight D-phenny can be prescribed. You can also hunt it down on the 'Net.
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Re: Using Dl-phenylalanine To Potentiate Kratom -

Postby The Wizard » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:49 pm

So what if it isn't good to combine DLPA (DL-Phenylalanine) with SSRI's, SNRI's (Effexor, Cymbalta), NRI's (Reboxetin) or Amphetamines (Adderall)...What does this prove to people curious about trying DLPA? It isn't safe to combine SNRI's, NRI's or Amphetamines with ANY other stimulants...

On the scale of stimulants DLPA is extremely mild on the body. You won't notice it raise your blood pressure or pulse much if at all and you won't get anxiety or insomnia or crash from it when you come down. It's very healthy stuff, man. Good if you are sleepy/sluggish and need energy, good if you're depressed or good if you need something to treat pain.

I haven't tried D-Phenylalanine? I'm trying to remember is D-Phenylalanine the stimulating Phenylalanine and L-Phenylalanine is the one with analgesic effects? I've just always stuck to good old DLPA powder. If I take 1-2+ grams on an empty stomach along with a B-complex vitamin and vitamin C it always give me a nice boost. For instance, if the night before I didn't get much sleep and awake really sleepy and beat I can pop some DLPA before work and while on it I feel as if I got more rest the night before and have more energy than I would otherwise.

And you simply cannot beat the price of DLPA. It's pretty much cheaper than almost any other effective stimulant out there (300 grams for 15 bucks!)...

Next time you guys plan to eat a source of Caffeine (or some other healthy stimulant) or an Opiate/Opioid or Kratom (DL-Phenylalanine also boost Opioids as it increases Endorphin release and restores the body's Opioid levels) try an hour before eating 1-2 grams of DLPA with vitamins B's and vitamin C on an empty stomach an hour before and watch the magic.
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Re: Using Dl-phenylalanine To Potentiate Kratom -

Postby saltwater09 » Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:10 pm

Zombiesoul wrote:YOU ABSOLUTELY DO NOT WANT TO TAKE DL-PA WITH CYMBALTA, EFFEXOR, REBOXETINE OR ADDERALL UNLESS YOU HAVE THE TOOLS TO REVERSE A HYPERTENSIVE CRISIS!

It's a horror-show, believe me.

However, on the benefits side, I once took DL-PA for a month and then went on a regimen of tramadol (which hasweak norepinephrine reuptake-blocking effects). Any excessive stimulation was counteracted by serious analgesia (and I am not someone who normally "feels" this stuff). I actually was almost nodding-out.

If you have a good physician straight D-phenny can be prescribed. You can also hunt it down on the 'Net.



Would Lexapro fall into this category as well, as it is also a SNRI, right? Or is it SSRI? Been a few years since pharma class :P
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Re: Using Dl-phenylalanine To Potentiate Kratom -

Postby Zombiesoul » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:17 pm

Lexapro is a SSRI. Kanna is an SSRI as well

saltwater09 wrote:Would Lexapro fall into this category as well, as it is also a SNRI, right? Or is it SSRI? Been a few years since pharma class :P
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Re: Using Dl-phenylalanine To Potentiate Kratom -

Postby The Wizard » Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:48 am

Have studies ever proven that Kanna has an SSRI action or is just something often theorized?
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Re: Using Dl-phenylalanine To Potentiate Kratom -

Postby oaxaca » Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:28 pm

Hmm this is interesting because biological systems in general only produce L optical isomers of amino acids (ie. phenylalanine). Most enzymes have a massively high Km (low affinity) for D-substrates. ie its pretty unusual that Dextro forms of anything have any real effect on the body. Cool stuff though! pharmacology/biology in general is a fascinating subject :)
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