A new take on amanita growth.

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mutant
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Re: An new take on amanita growth. -

Post by mutant » Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:51 pm

Actually, I prefer the Ambrosia over the mushroom. It definitely hits me quicker, and I feel none of the side effects that I sometimes get from the mushroom (lethargy/drowsiness, and the occasional sweats).

I also get more visual effects such as vibrant colors and lite tracers.

The effect from the Ambrosia that I desire most is its sense of calming. It's like the Ambrosia closes the flood gates to cut off the flow of excessive thoughts and emotions that are clouding my mind. Then I just feel peaceful and euphoric-like. I just "am".
Not all batches of amanita cause sweats [traces of muscarine maybe] and I am personally convinced that preparing the mushroom right prevents any stomach symptoms, which by the way tastes great. But well, yea if you don't have any where you're at...

Anyways, I find this debate between the sceptics and AS a bit useless. I mean what are you arguing about? It's definately not the AM, but since it inebriates just like AM, then it sure is not some random thing..

I agree that you should do the same experiment and produce some other fleeces from other edibles..

Its very interesting what you mention about pantherina... I would love to hear more. My friend has some pantherina which he has used in the past when out of muscarias, as they are common as well. BUT, indeed scientific papers show that pantherina contains a couple of toxins [stizolobic and stizolobinic acdi if I remember right] which could make pantherina more toxic than muscaria which I think contains these toxins in trace amounts...

Another interesting question:

you say you have used different batches of muscaria over the world and it has always worked?? Do you have a file of the locations of the reports and all ?? Have you noticed differences in the fleece or the resulting liquid of different amanita batches from places 'over the world' as you claim??

Have you actually noticed a difference betweein pantherina and muscaria inebriation with 'real' material ??
Last edited by mutant on Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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cowfodder
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Re: An new take on amanita growth. -

Post by cowfodder » Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:30 pm

Rawkcuf wrote:I thought that Amanita muscaria produces white "spore prints", however, the spores themselves are colorless (clear).
http://www.erowid.org/plants/amanita...muscaria.shtml

Also, Don and the Ambrosia Society do not sell Amanita mushrooms. We get our mushrooms from Gardens of the Ancients, who sells them at relatively low prices. Again, since we live in Austin TX, they are shipped in from other countries and other parts of this country. So it's not as common for us :)

Don and the Ambrosia Society decided not to use Amanita pantherina because the few batches of Ambrosia that we did make using pantherina, everyone reported feeling some kind of discomfort in their kidneys after drinking the Ambrosia. And since there is scientific data that concludes pantherina can contain toxins, we thought it best to avoid it completely to be safe. Again, this decision wasn't made just from research we found, but also from bio-assay.

*Interesting Note: the Amanita pantherina had it's own distinct fleece. If I remember correctly, it was more dense, and a little more off-white color than that of muscaria.

I could definitely see how pantherina could be a "mutated form" of muscaria, though.

-Terry

From Wikipedia:
"The oval spores measure 9–13 by 6.5–9*μm, and are non-amyloid, that is, they do not turn blue with the application of iodine."

They are white spores.

As far as Pantherina containing other toxins, this is the first I've heard of that. I honestly lost most of my interest in amanitas a while ago, unless I pick them myself. That is interesting info to have.

I do think that maybe my dislike of Christianity might be coloring my perception of of the AS a little bit. I think I might try re-reading Teeter's book with a completely open mind, then I'll post here again.

One thing looks to be pretty certain though, the fleece is not amanita muscaria.

*On a completely unrelated note, I've posted in this thread so many times from my iPhone that it now knows the correct spelling of Amanita Muscaria, and corrects me when I mistype it.*
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Re: An new take on amanita growth. -

Post by cowfodder » Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:32 pm

"The free gills are white, as is the spore print. The oval spores measure 9–13 by 6.5–9 μm, and are non-amyloid, that is, they do not turn blue with the application of iodine."

Or helps when I paste the right thing.
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Rawkcuf
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Re: An new take on amanita growth. -

Post by Rawkcuf » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:58 am

Have you re-read Don's book yet?

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Re: An new take on amanita growth. -

Post by mutant » Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:19 am

Rawkcuf, you don't find my questions interesting enough to bother ???
you say you have used different batches of muscaria over the world and it has always worked?? Do you have a file of the locations of the reports and all ?? Have you noticed differences in the fleece or the resulting liquid of different amanita batches from places 'over the world' as you claim??

Have you actually noticed a difference betweein pantherina and muscaria inebriation with 'real' material ??

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Re: An new take on amanita growth. -

Post by Rawkcuf » Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:25 pm

I was going to respond and got distracted, then forgot about it :)

As for the Pantherinas, I cannot say, because I personally have never tried Pantherina.

For your other question, Don let me borrow a paragraph from an article/essay that he is currently working on and will be released in the future. This is a sneak peak:

"Now, it occurred to me that perhaps the fleece was in reality a local parasite on the A. muscaria formosa of my region of upstate N.Y. So when ever I had a little extra cash I would buy dried A. muscaria from venders on the internet from around the world. Of course if the opportunity arose to pick A. muscaria in my travels those were also dried and tested. Over the course of several years Amanita muscaria from the following areas; NY, Taos N.M., Colorado, Washington state, Oregon, S. Eastern U.S., Siberia, Latvia, Serbia, Switzerland and South Africa were tested to see if the fleece could be germinated from these dried mushrooms. (These are all the countries which we have tested so far, however, we would love to test some from Australia and New Zealand and South America) In all these cases the fleece could be easily generated and appeared under a 100x microscope to be identical in structure and spores. The only difference noted was golden capped A. muscaria mushrooms produced a slightly whiter fleece that stayed whiter for up to 24 hrs longer than the fleece from the red capped specimens, which many times quickly turned from bright white to light gray. Whatever the fleece is, it appears to have a world wide distribution with A. muscaria of all varieties. One sample of dried Amanita pantherina was also tested and it germinated its own distinctive fleece that was whiter and much shorter than the fleece generated by A. muscaria. I believe further testing of other related species of Amanita will yield other species-related “fleeces”."

As for the differences in "potency of resulting liquid amongst the different batches", no, the potency does not seem to vary. It seems that as long as the fleece gets to run its course, the resulting ambrosia is relatively consistent. What is observed, is that the fleece resurrects differently from the different batches. Some will resurrect within 36 hours and others might take up to 4-5 days. AMs that don't resurrect within 3 days are virtually never used by the Ambrosia Society for making Ambrosia or Living Bread, however are still useful medicinally.

I also copied this from Erowid:
"Spore Print is white. Spores are 9-13 x 6.5-9 microns, broadly elliptical, smooth, colorless, and nonamyloid."
Last edited by Rawkcuf on Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: An new take on amanita growth. -

Post by Rawkcuf » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:33 am

So what do y'all think? Are the spores clear and make a white sporeprint? Or do you think it means that the spores themself are white?

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Re: An new take on amanita growth. -

Post by TimeLord » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:48 pm

Has anyone come up with a tek they have found successful. The tek as I can figure it out isn't as easy to get running as Don Teeter's book, Herb of Immortality lead me to believe.
A single test was performed to see if the reported results could be
reproduced.

Amanita Muscaria was obtained on-line from BBB. The material was one
year old being 2009 A+ caps, from Washington State.

Method

14.6 grams A.M. broken into fingernail sized
pieces in baggie. Placed in 500 cc mason jar and covered with
Welch's 100% bottled grape juice. Clean conditions - not sterile.

8 hours later the infusion was poured off. Sample jar covered with coffee
filter and ring, stored at room temp.

Observations:

Day 3: noted a couple of whitish spots on sample. Spot size
approx 2mm.

Day 4: Multiple outbreaks (20) of whitish mycelia. Some starting
to cover pieces of mushroom.

Day 6: Growth stalled at 50% coverage, 3 mm yellow
contamination noted.


White areas are very likely mycelia; black is sporulation - This is day 11.

Conclusions:
1) Some mycelia grew on the sample.
2) Temperature too low being ambient room temp maxing out at 74 F.
Contamination present at day 6. Higher temps may allow A.M. colonization
before contams can set in.
3) Evaporation too high with widemouth jar only having filter paper cover.
4) "Resurrection" of dried A.M. samples appears feasible. Place next sample
in fruiting chamber for temperature and moisture control.

Additional Notes:
1) The extraction produced to start this test had no discernible
bio-assay effect.
3) This sample is contaminated and will be disposed of.


Edit
1) On re-reading the extraction tek on page 48, it is noted that specimens should be extracted for 24 hours. 8 hour extractions are for living mycelial colonies. The short extraction time used in error here may explain the absense of effects.
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Herbivore
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Re: An new take on amanita growth. -

Post by Herbivore » Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:07 am

Sorry I read up to 26 then skipped to the last page. Is this concluded yet. Can I put Amanita in grapefruit.
I like the second part of the Amanita experience. But the first part is so bothersome.
I can send some Amanita from New Zealand a dried sample. Consider it my duty to the miracle of consciousness.
All I want to know does work the grape juice. Is it less sickening then Amanita taken ordinarily.
The other day I went up the hill and there was no Amanita. It is mid winter. But the winters here are mild. There should be some to send soon.

Could this post be trimmed of speculation of SOMA and the arguments. I have to grind through it. It adds nothing to what I really want to know.

And thanks to Stephen L Peele.

Could this process be related to fermentation creating muscimol. Like fermented fish heads.
Last edited by Herbivore on Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: An new take on amanita growth. -

Post by Herbivore » Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:13 am

I've read some of the tribe website. There seems to be enthusiasm and experience reports. Other motives for fake enthusiasm and reports would be to sell a book.
I'll say this muscimol is really pleasant. But unfortunately in it's natural state this is ruined by muscarine.
This is the tek I've been looking for if it turns out to be true. In pursuit of my own interests I might even buy the book.
The extrapolation of Jesus is interesting. Water into wine, muscimol. The many loaves, muscimol. And finally the fish, fermented of course, muscimol.
The is some heat to this debate. Salvia went through this when it was obscure. Poo pooed on many a forum.

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