A new take on amanita growth.

Rawkcuf
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:00 pm

Re: An new take on amanita growth. -

Post by Rawkcuf » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:53 pm

Herbivore wrote:I've read some of the tribe website. There seems to be enthusiasm and experience reports. Other motives for fake enthusiasm and reports would be to sell a book.
I'll say this muscimol is really pleasant. But unfortunately in it's natural state this is ruined by muscarine.
This is the tek I've been looking for if it turns out to be true. In pursuit of my own interests I might even buy the book.
The book is, and has always been, available for free download at http://www.ambrosiasociety.org/download.html

-Terry

P.S. - We would LOVE to test some Amanitas from New Zealand! You can contact me or Don through the Ambrosia Society website. Or through here. That would be awesome if we could finally test some from your area! :)

User avatar
Herbivore
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:00 pm
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Re: An new take on amanita growth. -

Post by Herbivore » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:18 pm

Thanks. Looking forward to a good read. Certainly I will send some dry Amanita. It's cool weather right now. Normally they are common most of the time. The first I find I'll send.
Thanks for the book.

Rawkcuf
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:00 pm

Re: An new take on amanita growth. -

Post by Rawkcuf » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:46 pm

Herbivore wrote:Thanks. Looking forward to a good read. Certainly I will send some dry Amanita. It's cool weather right now. Normally they are common most of the time. The first I find I'll send.
Thanks for the book.
Awesome! That's great to hear! Don is already excited (as am I) at the opportunity to experiment with AMs from New Zealand :).

You're very welcome for the book. That was Don's intentions from the beginning: to make his book available for free download so that no one is denied access to this wonderful knowledge; and so that anyone who is willing, can recreate Don's experiments for themselves.

Feel free to email me or Don if you have any questions. Don has developed several different techniques of brewing the Ambrosia since the book was released. All of which help cut down on the possibility of contamination.

-Terry

Chaotechnic
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:00 pm
Location: PNW

Re: An new take on amanita growth. -

Post by Chaotechnic » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:59 am

Wow, long thread. And unfortunately not very satisfying or well-resolved, even several years after the original post. Still, some of the material discussed here is intriguing. Even though the fleece appears not to be the mycellium of A. muscaria, the claims that it produces a psychoactive potion are still interesting in their own right.

What has me confused is that there are virtually no clear descriptions of the effects. It seems that the basic claim is that it produces effects identical to eating fly agarics, yet the descriptions do not seem to bear this out:

First we have Teeter's remarks comparing the wine with the effects of LSD, a comparison which many can attest is entirely inapt for fly agarics. Then we have Terry's description of enhanced colors, light tracers, and a deep peace of mind; this isn't inconsistent with a very low dose of fly agaric, but the same description could as well be applied to a nice cup of fresh tea... which is to say, it sounds hardly distinguishable from placebo. And although the wine is supposed to be active with as little as a few teaspoon, Pastor David drank several liters (and the recycled urine) without experiencing any dramatic increase in activity... in fact his description of the effect again sound practically indistinguishable from placebo.

I cannot help but be skeptical. Has anyone tried this who can articulate the effects more clearly? Has anyone taken a large enough dose to go beyond the tonic-type effects of a low-dose fly agaric experience, and actually experienced a significant inebriation? In what ways specifically do the effects resemble or differ from those of the fly agaric?

Considering the number of people who have apparently tried this, and the apparent lack of reports on the subjective effects (beyond such generic platitudes as "this stuff is amazing" or "this stuff is truly a gift from God"), I can't help but wonder whether the wine actually possesses any significant psychoactive properties. Is there anyone who can speak to this issue more clearly or definitively?

User avatar
GK77
Posts: 1306
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:54 pm
Location: Your Mind

Re: An new take on amanita growth. -

Post by GK77 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:32 pm

I have had one remarkable (as in effects, not impression) with a fly agaric extract. However I do not feel comfortable admitting this was entirely due to agaric.

My reasoning for this is based on previous experience with a speific vendor, including sinuchi, blue lotus and wild lettuce. Each one had an extremely strong and identical result; curiously similar to a synthetic cannabinoid now banned in most areas.

Due to this, the results experienced from the agaric tar are questionable regarding the catylst involved; nonetheless what I felt was not placebo. It was a very dizzying floating feeling. No substantial visuals were present. (although I am a hardhead when it comes to visual).

Never experienced anything from latvian, european or washington-grade A's.
Nada.
"I want to know God's thoughts, the rest are details."
-AE


http://forums.botanicalswap.org/index.php?topic=1808.0

Chaotechnic
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:00 pm
Location: PNW

Re: An new take on amanita growth. -

Post by Chaotechnic » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:46 am

Yes, I'm not questioning the effects of fly agarics. I am personally familiar with the effects of fly agarics at a range of dosages.

My skepticism, which I hope someone can dispell, is about the effects of the fleece.

User avatar
GK77
Posts: 1306
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:54 pm
Location: Your Mind

Re: An new take on amanita growth. -

Post by GK77 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:23 am

Eh, didn't feel like reading 47 pages.
"I want to know God's thoughts, the rest are details."
-AE


http://forums.botanicalswap.org/index.php?topic=1808.0

Chaotechnic
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:00 pm
Location: PNW

Re: An new take on amanita growth. -

Post by Chaotechnic » Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:06 am

Here's a quick summary:

1.) Some folks at the Ambrosia Society figured out they could grow a white fleecy fungal material by innoculating grape juice with coarsely powdered A. muscaria. They claim this fleece (and grape juice that has been fermented with it) has the same effects as fly agaric mushrooms.

2.) A mycologist investigated the material and determined conclusively that it was not A. muscaria mycellium, as had been previously claimed, but was instead some sort of mucor fungus. Genetic analysis seemed to confirm that the material was not A. muscaria mycellium.

3.) Even if the fleece isn't A. muscaria, the claims of it being psychoactive are interesting... hence my post wondering if more details about this claim might be forthcoming.

4.) There's been speculation that this fleece is a species which is an endosymbiote of the fly agaric mushroom, and it might be responsible for the production of ibotenic acid and muscimol. There is no evidence as yet to support this speculation.

5.) It has been claimed that the (as-yet ambiguous) effects of the fleece-innoculated grape juice are enhanced by heating to 190 degrees Fahrenheit. This is supposedly because ibotenic acid decarboxylates to muscimol at this temperature, but this notion appears to be unsubstantiated in the scientific literature. If there is indeed a different active ingredient produced by the fleece, it's possible that this heating process is significant in altering that compound.

That's basically everything important from those 47 pages, aside from a discussion of soma (I personally disagree with many of the points raised, but this really isn't an appropriate thread for soma discussion) and a diversion into paranoid delusions about the pages of Bibles and other books being laced with muscimol as a covert way to control society for the last several hundred years.
Last edited by Chaotechnic on Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
flickedbic
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:35 pm

Re: An new take on amanita growth. -

Post by flickedbic » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:18 am

Thanks for that summary

Real quick on point 5:
...are enhanced by heating to 190 degrees Fahrenheit. This is supposedly because ibotenic acid decarboxylates to muscimol at this temperature, but this notion appears to be unsubstantiated in the scientific literature.
I found this:

"Ibotenic acid [...] stored for 2 h at 100°C [...] was quantitatively decarboxylated to muscimol at pH 2.7."-Elsebet Ø. Nielsen, Arne Schousboe, Steen H. Hansen, Povl Krogsgaard-Larsen
"Excitatory Amino Acids: Studies on the Biochemical and Chemical Stability of Ibotenic Acid and Related Compounds"
Journal of Neurochemistry 1985, 45(3), pp.725–731
DOI: 10.1111/j.1471-4159.1985.tb04052.x

212 degrees Fahrenheit decarboxylation to muscimol.

Why would you say "this isn't a place for soma discussion" in the same sentence prior to claiming such as: "delusions about the pages of Bibles and other books being laced with muscimol as a covert way to control society"; an obvious distortion?

Anyways, I appreciate all the ideas in this thread, let's keep it on track!

Blessings.
All readable matter in the above post is ficticious.

Any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.

Without prejudice.

Chaotechnic
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:00 pm
Location: PNW

Re: An new take on amanita growth. -

Post by Chaotechnic » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:57 am

Good point on the ibotenic acid conversion. While the grape juice probably isn't that acidic, it's still good to have an indication that decarboxylation can occur in solution when heat is applied.
flickedbic wrote:Why would you say "this isn't a place for soma discussion" in the same sentence prior to claiming such as: "delusions about the pages of Bibles and other books being laced with muscimol as a covert way to control society"; an obvious distortion?
I was outlining directions in which the thread had gone astray. Some people were arguing about the identity of soma. Some people were talking about an international conspiracy of religious institutions and governments lacing the pages of books with muscimol to control the population. I said that this isn't the place for soma discussion because I have strong objections to some of the arguments that were made, but don't feel that this is an appropriate thread to address them. I made no such statement about the muscimol conspiracy because I feel it goes without saying that discussing factual claims on the basis of absolutely no evidence at all has no place here and is clearly has no relevance in a thread about the "fleece" material.

Post Reply