amanita muscaria pretrip

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leonurinejindo
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amanita muscaria pretrip -

Post by leonurinejindo » Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:33 pm

a good old friend of mine said he has the red amanitas growing everywhere, but he also know that they can be extremely poisonois. he is about 90 to 100 pounds and thinks like poisons might effect him more... so he was wondering the following things
what is the safest possible way to injest it
how would he make a pure muscimol extract
how much would it take him to definately get effects but not a chance of death or hosbitilization
is it even worth it?
is smoking it safer?

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flickedbic
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Re: amanita muscaria pretrip -

Post by flickedbic » Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:14 pm

Smoking may be "safer" with un-ID'd fruit skin.

Safest ingestion may be to have a seasoned local mycologist go with to help ID; really educate yourself is as important; finally upload the pics of the cap and stem for folks to positively ID in the mushroom forum(s).

Next one would want to convert all baddies to goodies; one might do this by heat or drying completely... to be safe; drying; powdering to homogenize potentcy; a tea made using a candy thermometer to measure temp. and keep within a few degrees of 190 F. Finally; exposing the tea to sunlight so the U.V. rays might convert any remaining Ibotenic acid in the final tea to a non-toxic (but non-psychoactive) form.

I think it is some expensive and complicated procedure for pure muscimol extraction.

It may be very worth it. The muscimol-sweating mycelium can be grown on petri agar... I'm not sure of potentcy but have heard of some eating the mycelial cakes of the little ones to effect...

Other forms of cultivation are somewhat time-intensive.
Last edited by flickedbic on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
All readable matter in the above post is ficticious.

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Without prejudice.

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Stephen L. Peele
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Re: amanita muscaria pretrip -

Post by Stephen L. Peele » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:32 pm

The "baddie" in Amanita muscaria is Muscarine. Did not know you could change this into a "goodie" with heat. I have never seen a documented report of a death caused by this mushroom. Plenty have thought they were going to die. The mushrooms should be dried in sunlight to convert Ibotenic into Muscimol. Very few people ever eat this mushroom more than once. That includes me. I would forget them. Usually one large cap is taken. If you do eat one, you will probably wish you had remembered my warning. I have maintained many live cultures of this mushroom on PDA which is recommended by the ATCC. Never saw any sweating, or what I would call "Muscimol Sweating", and why would this happen? Any documentations on this? slp/fmrc

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flickedbic
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Re: amanita muscaria pretrip -

Post by flickedbic » Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:05 am

I was told that UV (sunlight) will degrade the baddie Ibotenic acid to muscazone. This would not be as shamanically beneficial as muscimol, but my dog would like it better than an excess Ibotenic acid.

Heat and drying are said to decarboxilate the Ibotenic acid into the potent Muscimol.
The A. muscaria contains an variable dose muscarine, usually around 0.0003% fresh weight. This is very low and toxicity symptoms occur very rarely.
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscarine
A batch especially high in it is not preferred; that is for sure.
Never saw any sweating, or what I would call "Muscimol Sweating", and why would this happen? Any documentations on this?
- slp/fmrc

Word of mouth from Rawcuf; I think he means "sweat" as in "diffuse" (and it is Ibotenic acid sweat and not muscimol, my bad):
The mycelium itself sweats Ibotenic Acid, which then is heated to be decarboxylized, and you're left with muscimol.
He uses widely-debated methods of growth (and extraction) of his "mycelium"; but one needn't follow his methods to obtain the sweat... I would imagine pressing a mass of the mycelium might yield some juice; or mycelium tea for effect.

Blessings.
Last edited by flickedbic on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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leonurinejindo
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Re: amanita muscaria pretrip -

Post by leonurinejindo » Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:02 am

thanks!

this really helps a lot. but luckily for me im friends with someone whos a complete ethnobotony junkie. The mushrooms grow EVERYWHERE here. usually near trees a few days after rain... pretty cool

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Stephen L. Peele
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Re: amanita muscaria pretrip -

Post by Stephen L. Peele » Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:41 am

I do not consider Ibotenic Acid as a baddie. It is listed in the Merck Index as a flavor enhancer. Yes, certain UV bands in sunlight change it into Muscimol. Heating only changes a very, very, small amount. I have always thought this is the reason why some Amanita muscaria are more psychoactive than others. Ones collected out in full sun, will be better than those collected in shady areas. As I stated, Muscarine is the toxin that causes the ill effects of this mushroom. Even the smallest amounts bring on the dreaded "drool" and the start of the effects of this toxin. Nothing has changed my post. I still stand by it. slp/fmrc

leonurinejindo
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Re: amanita muscaria pretrip -

Post by leonurinejindo » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:58 am

im not exactly sure what slp/fmrs or something like that means. could you please explain?

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Stephen L. Peele
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Re: amanita muscaria pretrip -

Post by Stephen L. Peele » Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:21 am

slp/fmrc.............Stephen L. Peele/Curator Florida Mycology Research Center.
To learn more about who I am, read the opening page at www.mushroomsfmrc.com slp/fmrc

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flickedbic
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Re: amanita muscaria pretrip -

Post by flickedbic » Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:02 pm

I do not consider Ibotenic Acid as a baddie. It is listed in the Merck Index as a flavor enhancer. Yes, certain UV bands in sunlight change it into Muscimol. Heating only changes a very, very, small amount.
First off let me say I apologize for calling Ibotenic Acid (I.A.) a baddie; after all it may change into Muscimol... so it is at least a potential goodie :) I had read something about I.A. causing brain lesions; but I think that may have been from direct application to the brain and do not know how much would make it to/thru the BBB when orally consumed.

I am interested in the specific UV bands that change I.A. into the Muscimol, and which bands turn it into Muscazone.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

BTW, my dog has encountered the nauseous drool from Muscarine; and doesn't plan to again if 5-10 Datura seeds (and no more!) or 100mg of Belladonna leaves (and no more!) can prove to be a Muscimol-potentiating Muscarine antidote.
The specific antidote is atropine.
Wikepedia; on Muscarine poisnoing.
Atropine,
a powerful drug extracted from Atropa belladonna,
Datura stramonium, and other Solonaceae, exacerbates
the effects of ibotenic acid and muscimol. Nevertheless,
other symptoms at times indicate that
the use of some atropine might be beneficial.
-Animal Poisoning by Amanita pantherina and Amanita muscaria: A Commentary by Michael Beug and Marilyn Shaw
...a potentiator of muscimol AND an antidote to muscarine poisonning.
But I don't know if it's best to use high scolopamine profile plant (i.e. Brugmansia, datura inoxia..) or high hyosciamine content plant (i.e. Belladonna, datura stramonium).
-Romanesco, on another forum.

If experimenting with the Atropine combination my dog would be surely expose the remaining Ibotenic acid to sunlight at the end to convert to Muscimol and Muscazone, as my dog would not want the I.A. potentiated, just in case... he will likely do this step regardless at the end of preparing his expiriments from now on, as the U.V. won't hurt the Muscimol (too much) he hopes; and should make more anyways from any I.A. that the complete drying and 190F. tea-making process didn't convert.

Blessings.
Last edited by flickedbic on Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
All readable matter in the above post is ficticious.

Any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.

Without prejudice.

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